When Elise and I started MTJS, I began by reviewing my extensive Spyderco collection. Over the years, due to constant bugging by you lot, I started reviewing knives from brands I never really had much interest in.
A good example would be Cold Steel. After much reticence on my part, I finally snapped and bought one. Then another and yet another. The best thing about MTJS really is its community. As a blade aficionado, I have evolved and broadened my taste thanks to all of you.
My wallet does not thank you.
What I find interesting is that my tastes haven’t really changed over the years, nor have my core opinions about my likes and dislikes. But my buying habits have changed drastically. I buy next to nothing in the new-knife department these days, and while this is partly down to my own biases, honestly, the bigger reason is the demographic shift in the knife world.
I recently found an old notepad file with my “To Buy Wishlist” from 2007 and it struck me that we sort of hit a technological peak in 2008-2012 in terms of blade performance (at least in my view) and marketing approach.
Spyderco Matriarch With Emerson Wave Knife – Amazon / eBay
These days, companies keep cranking out new models, but I find myself befuddled by the direction traditional “Western” companies are taking.
You may disagree with this assessment, but I do feel like Western companies are trying to compete with China, and in the process are missing the entire point. Watching BladeHQ’s Shot Show videos from 2018, it’s impossible to miss all the mid-range stuff. It all seems to be trying to compete with Chinese brands like Kizer, but being priced at a higher price point, completely defeats the purpose.
Folks, this is a stupid way to go. The Chinese are cranking out Ti-flippers all day, everyday with consistent CNC machining and cookie cutter specs (Western stainless, full titanium, ball bearing pivot) that the West cannot match using the same economic model.
And then you have the other end of the spectrum. Spyderco is creating literally the same stuff they always were, but is now selling it at obnoxious prices. This is a huge problem in my eyes, and I do find myself removed from Spyderco’s “circle” of consumers. A brand I have supported for years is no longer where I go to buy shinies due to the shift in target demographics.
Sal probably knows what he is doing. No doubt his numbers are better than before, but the pervasive lack of “performance before marketing” just rubs me the wrong way. A solid example would be using CPM 3V in a folder because it’s “tough.” You know what’s tough Sal? AUS-8M at 57HRC. You could have a great beater at a quarter of the price if you forgo the 3V & Ti framelock nonsense and went with an inexpensive compression lock & FRN scales (with nested steel liners).
Obviously, I am in the minority in thinking this way as “mid-tech” knives are soaring in popularity and everywhere I go I see folks rocking (but barely using) $200+ “inexpensive” Chinese framelocks for their never ending stream of staged Instagram photos (I know I am guilty of this, too!).
Which leads us to today and the purpose behind this post.
Traditionally I review the new stuff, but as of late, I haven’t bought any new models. I have a bunch of 5 inch fixed blade classics like the ESEE-4 & Fallkniven F1 that will get reviewed, but this new crop of man jewellery is just way, way too far out of my comfort zone.
Every other day I get these Chinese companies offering to send me their knives for review and I have never accepted due to my exhaustion with blades created purely with sales in mind. This churning of shiny ti-framelocks year after year with little to no testing or real world performance studies is just too exhausting to review.
Remember when ESEE launched their new line of knives? We were shown real world feedback from the Amazon and what seems to me a real focus on knives as tools as opposed to creating another shiny for people to collect. I legitimately felt genuine excitement back in those days. ESEE’s lifetime warranty was a legit talking point as people actually beat the living crap out of their knives. These days, it’s one famous designer licensing a design and getting a few thousand examples sold until 6 months later, when there is another flavour of the month model put out.
This is super depressing. I want to be excited by (in my opinion) cool knives like the Kizer John Gray GPB1, but due to the onslaught of new models that are all on-paper identical (in terms of specs), I just avoid them all.
Even if I wanted to jump on the bandwagon, I am just not able to afford the Western companies (albeit still made in Asia) equivalents. Spyderco “Paysan” launched this week, and its $520.
I don’t mind companies creating blades for those who want to drop big bucks on titanium shinies, but more and more I feel my own demographic (performance driven, 100-200$) is being ignored.
So I am buying up models that I dig that are still in production from a time where they were new and exciting. Once I run out of those knives, frankly I might go full custom because (as crazy as it sounds) a handmade knife from the UK is now cheaper than a mass produced knife from Taiwan with an iconic Spyder lasered on the blade.
I went to the blade show in Atlanta this year. Lots of nice looking knifes. One folder I picked up was nice. I asked how much it was $2000. I have a bunch of so called name brand junk. But my only knife I carry other than my leatherman is a Mission Knifes MPK 10 in A2. I don’t even enjoy looking at others at the shows. It does everything I could ever want including sticking it threw a car door(why). The only other knife I would get is the all titanium model that the seals use.
I have always wanted to test out the Mission knives but the price scared me away, maybe one day i’ll find one on the secondary market with a less scary price tag! ;)
Good point on Spyderco, I’d see the new models and think cool, then I would see the price and think “I’m good with my Endura and Delica”, to be honest though it seems all consumer products are being split into premium goods and low quality as producers go for mass production or low production with higher profit margins. I recently read an article on watches similar to your point on knives where the author said mid range swiss watches are being phased out (which he classified as 500 to 10,000!) , as they are targeting the super wealthy market.
Exactly Mark! Why go mid-range when the profit margins are so good on the high end and the volume so high on the low end. Sad but true. As for watches, thankfully we have Grand Seiko (amazing bang for buck) and the secondary market. ;)
You can still buy Tissot, Certina, Mido for a good price, for a bit more you can treat yourself to an Oris, probably the best value in a Swiss watch…but likely the cost is going to creep up
What do you think of “boutique” brands like Steinhart? On paper they seem like great value.
Steinhardt seems to be a good brand from what I’ve read, I don’t have any personal experience with them. I’d stay away from those micro brands I see on kickstarter though, from the ones I’ve looked at you might as well buy a Tissot or Mido and get the Swatch group guarantee plus the ETA movement
Yeah, i’ve had awful experiences with kickstarter so I shan’t be going in that direction.
I just can’t understand the harpoon blade profile, or why several companies have it. I understand that part of a knife is how it looks, but for me it is performance first. Fantasy knives are to put next to your Lord of the Rings stuff. How exactly does the harpoon help me?
I re-entered the EDC looking/buying world as the titanium frame lock flipper came into vogue and fortunately missed the hype while playing catch up. Good lord, every Kizer over $100 fits this description.
I do like a couple Kizer Vanguard knives, but most of their stuff seems very similar – it fits under the same general description. The same can be said for WE knives. Why would I buy more than one?
Unfortunately I came back into the EDC world after the Spyderco Caly 3 was discontinued. I look at those prices and the ZDP-189 models & get sticker shock. I’ll take an AUS-8 or VG-10 model at half the price and use it, thank-you.
The thing is, I don’t see the collector/Instagram market as being sustainable. Things fall out of fashion, especially accessories. Users get replaced when worn out. Users get upgraded for better tools. Accessories are flavors of the month, they are toys that just add some colors.
By all means cash in while the market is there, but please have a user/working/beater line too.
Things have improved in the budget/beater range of <$50. But that mid-range of $50-$150 could use some boost.
100% agreed on the mid-range market issues. I feel with the influx of shiny framelock/S30v blades from China is that collecting has almost turned into accumulation. So many of the damn things that you don’t have the time to lust for a new knife before another comes and takes its place. Frankly its put me off completely.
I joke that I don’t want a knife that I wouldn’t be willing to stab in to a car door or use a pry bar. I’m never in those situations but basically I don’t want a knife to EDC that I won’t be heartbroken if I leave it on a table or it catches on something and leave my pocket. I love metal, I love 3V and M390, all of it. However I agree AUS-8 was wonderful 60 to 120 dollars was wonderful for a knife (less when you bought the old cold steel) it’s hard these days for me to find folders that really interest me. I like things that I can carry at least a few times a year, as my collection grows in becomes harder as my EDC’s seem to stay the same. I do miss the days when 154cm and VG10 were the top ranked steels.
Aye, things have certainly changed. Especially more so over the past few years. I remember when I got my Super Blue Spydie Stretch and thought life couldn’t get much better. These days, steels are getting so extreme in the edge retention game that I almost don’t care about it anymore. Its a weird (first world) problem to have. ;)
As a longtime lurker of MTJS, i’ve seen all kinds of wunderknives being extolled, riled or downright insulted. At the end of the day, I got what I wanted. A nice review of a current knife, a good chuckle, and a recommendation that either I would choose to follow or ignore altogether.
And I had a couple of expat buddies discussing or arguing the virtues of the new flavor of the month knife, be it the newest supersteel or the locking mechanism. It just got to the point of being presented with basically the same knife repackaged by a different company.
Until I went to Cambodia and then to Thailand last year. Boy, the knives they had there were awesome. No more supersteel modern folders. They had spirit knives used as talismans, with woodcarvings on the hilts and pomels in the shape of magical creatures. I was hooked.
Now I’m looking into the different knives of southeast asia. Functional, daily used knives not merely for display. I think you should look into this subspecialty as well. After all the designs have been in use for hundreds of years.
Just sharing..
Best regards,
Al
I live in Bangkok now – do you have any recommendations for where to look for great knives? I’d love to check them out!
Hi David,
Sorry for the late reply. There is a weekend market called Chatuchak. You can head to their knives section. It’s all there mate. All kinds of knives to be had can be found there.
But if you want customized knives, there is this village that makes knives and swords for hundreds of years. The village’s name is Aranyik. It is found near the Chao Phraya river.
Happy hunting
Al
Nota bene
Sorry for writing on your blog Thomas. But I sincerely hope you can look into this. These are amazing knives and parangs
Thanks mate, means a lot to me that people like my approach to reviewing shinies. ;) I agree with your analysis, I often wish the art and emotional side of knives was as appreciated in the west as it is in the east. Thanks for dropping by, friend.
I guess each to his own. I have a problem with Chinese knives even though I know there are good bad and indifferent ones. I prefer US or Seki, Moki Japan made knives just because the ones I have seem to be consistently well made. I prefer to spend a little more for confidence that the quality will last. I like Benchmade, Buck (USA made), Case, Older Spyderco’s, Kershaw (US made), Randall and ZT. Some knives no longer made are of the highest quality like Lakota Lil Hawk.
Aye, I personally have no issues with Chinese made knives either, I just don’t feel like dropping what I think (just my opinion) is a huge amount of money for the same stuff over and over again with slightly different aesthetics.
Never heard of the Lakota lil Hawk- looks very cool!
Well said. I have been collecting knives since I was little. It’s been a long time since I have been little. Needless to say, I have a lot of knives. When I was young I carried various stockman knives that I would eventually lose. As a teen I carried mostly folding hunters. I had a Parker Frost Damascus hunter and a Ka-bar hunter. Now, pretty much since it was introduced, I have been carrying a Buck Vantage. Even though I have stuck to certain knives for my EDC I still bought knives with regularity. I agree that recently the knife market exploded with amazing designs, materials, and craftsmanship. I have snapped up my share of titanium, ball bearing, super steeled man jewelry. I use my knives and try to put each one through its paces from automotive work, construction, and even food prep. But, despite whatever it was I saw in that knife that led me to buy it, it eventually got pushed to the side and I ended up with the Vantage in my pocket. The Vantage stuck a chord with me that nothing else has come close to. I have really wanted to like the high end knives I bought. As much as some cost I should be madly in love with them. Despite the beautiful designs and the cutting edge materials of these knives something was always off. Either they were uncomfortable because of the crazy design, hard to maintain because in a pinch the blade steel was so hard I couldn’t sharpen it with things I had on hand, or it was just a pain to clean up after use so I could use it for things such as food prep. I’m not opposed to replacing the Vantage as my main EDC knife. Indeed, in the last ten years or so I thought I would have found something in the sea of new bling to take its place. But guess what is in my pocket?
I’ll take a wild guess… the Vantage? ;) I feel the same way mate, been rocking a plain Jane Higonokami all week and I have no real complaints, nor any desire to “upgrade”.
I could not agree with you more! And to quote you: “You could have a great beater at a quarter of the price if you forgo the 3V & Ti framelock nonsense and went with an inexpensive compression lock & FRN scales (with nested steel liners).” I think many people that are into knives know this. But let`s face it. It`s not about the need, but the want.
I started out just looking for a folder to “do it all.” And ended up with a black, sabregrind Manix 2 in 154cm. An awesome knife, that is all i will ever need. Also my most carried, together with the American Lawman and Delica 4. But… Somehow i now have 20+ knives, and although i know better, i`m pondering on getting an XM 18 Spanto. So, im as guilty as can be too! :)
Aye, for me its not about the collectable aspect of it, but rather the sheer number of similar knives getting cranked out year after year. Its getting exhausting and I just don’t want to keep up and review the same knife with a different name every 6 months or so. ;)
This is all about making gobs of money for the knife companies and if you get a bargain it is a freak occurrence! Just bought a TOPS knife(USA made) and it is a great knife. There are a lot of the Chinese knives ( Schrade, Kershaw) that are dirt cheap, high quality and well made. If you lose it you are not out $150 +. Mora of Sweden makes some really good knives, especially carbon steel ones that are tough and cheap.
Yup, I agree with all the above. I love my Tops Lite Trekker and have been musing about buying a Frog Market Special (very interesting design)- I reckon in the future you will see more knives like that on the blog and less of the latest folders.
Made in USA gotta be the most ad nauseam topic ever discussed in blade production. I rather have a overseas production daily beater, than an overpriced locally made which only purpose is Instagram’s royalty. As long as the quality is there, it’s good to go. I like my Made in China iphone, just ask those die hard to use a Made in US phone to quiet them up, at least for now.
As a Brit, there are so few made in the UK knives that I don’t have nationalistic tendencies with my blades. I go for quality, uniqueness and value- in that order. I am just fed up with the never ending stream of midtech’s from China and the Western companies responding by doing exactly the same thing but with an extra $200 added on top.
Tops knives…hold an edge, strong as the $ used to be, great sales and service. lifetime knives. Made in a free state. Points like needles,cutting surfaces like a razor.
Second comment in this post that mentions Tops- I guess I gotta get that review done asap!
Amen. I watched the continuing roll-out of those Shot Show videos with equal parts dread and deja vu. “Didn’t I just see all these knives yesterday?” I think ‘man jewelry’ is an appropriate term as they seem to be interchangeable fancy baubles for the office crowd to show off on social media. My heart goes out to all that poor premium steel, doomed to a lifetime of captivity in a khaki pocketed prison.
“poor premium steel, doomed to a lifetime of captivity in a khaki pocketed prison.” – Hilarious & agreed. ;)
I believe you are 100% correct. As a custom maker most of my customers would rather spend 250$ on a handmade piece than spend the same amount on a generic factory made piece.these flashy over priced knives are driving clients to my door.
Interesting to hear that you have had a positive impact from all of this, $250 for a unique piece makes more sense to me.
Will Rogers once said: “I’ve never met a man I didn’t like.” Gun and Knife magazine writers paraphrase Will: “I’ve never met a___[fill in the blank/gun/knife] I didn’t like.”
Flavor of the Month Club: 31 Flavors in ice cream. Name brand manufacturers in knives who market a flavor of the month are__[again fill in the blank].
My mentor told me not to buy any survival gear that was not performing at least 10% better than what I had. Spyderco. I bought one of the first produced Enduras over 20 years ago. Are any of the other, more recent, more expensive in-house company knockoffs any better? No, and I own them. My last Spyderco purchase last week was a used plain edge, old Endura.
Putting a name designer on a budget produced knife concept. I bought a few of the releases in 2017. A shadow of the durability of the name designer’s product selling for 8x the price. Oh, I will give them away as gifts. I am content to still have the guy’s folders from over 20 years ago without the currently marketed patented opening mechanism.
At one time, Sear’s Craftsman tools had a high reputation. If you wanted a good working knife, you went to Sear’s. Didn’t mean anything as to who was the actual manufacturer. Slip joint – not waves/flippers. Not state of the art metallurgy. Not special grind or metal of the month. Functional. Guess what? You can still buy the knife, used, on eBay. Just know how to sharpen and clean a knife.
One of the silliest knife reviews I have ever read was by a guy who worked in an office environment and said that a Kershaw Burr was too big for his pocket. He was also afraid that it was too menacing in an office environment. He was extolling his purchase of a new flipper that was flavor of the month at the 2018 shot show. Ok, just buy a used Craftsman for durability and you will never scare anyone.
Never seen a Craftsman/Sears knife before- looks very Buck like- any connection? Glad to hear I am not the only one who feels this way. As a reviewer I feel a certain degree of pressure to keep up with the times (so to speak) but its just gotten too much.